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FISG Stability Sub Group Meeting 8 MCA Spring Place 17th January 2007
Attendees
8.1. Welcome 8.1.1. The Chairman welcomed the members to the meeting and thanked them for attending. 8.2. Apologies 8.2.1. The Chairman explained that apologies had been received from Jim Hudson (NFFO) Iain McLeod (NIFF); George Geddes (SFF); Simon Oakes (SSA); Roger Janson (MCA). Prasad Panicker attended on Roger Janson’s behalf. Bill Wood did not attend. 8.3. Minutes of Last Meeting and Actions Arising 8.3.1. The Chairman invited the members of the Group to approve the minutes from the last meeting as a true record. All were content. 8.3.2. The Chairman then ran through the Actions outstanding list.
8.3.3. In respect of Action 7.3.A: please see A.O.B.
8.3.4. Action 7.3.B: Jim Evans asked for clarification.
Post Meeting Note: Neil Peacey explained at Stability Meeting 7 that the storage of such photographs (probably a minimum number, two/three, per vessel) was going to be considered as part of the Consolidated European Reporting System/Single Vessel Database (CERS/SVD) Project due for completion December 2007. In the interim MCA Regions were taking and storing photographs locally. The latest update on CERS/SVD progress is that a facility will be available to store one photograph on the system. The latter is scheduled to go live in mid 2008. (If more than one photograph is needed then others can be stored in the MCA’s digital image library and a hyperlink to them stored against the vessel record in CERS/SVD).
8.3.5. Action 7.3.C: Complete. However a discussion ensued about funding in England. Tony Tait mentioned that FIFG Funding was due to end on 31st March 2007 after which courses would have to be paid for. Jim Evans said that the new EFF Funding would not commence until Autumn 2007 i.e. there would be a funding “gap” for the period April through September 2007.
Action 8.3.1: Tony Tait (Seafish) to investigate the European funding for courses position for the period April through September 2007 and subsequent years under the new EFF. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.3.6. Action 7.4: please see A.O.B. – 8.8.3.
8.3.7. Action 7.5.A: Complete
8.3.8. Action 7.5.B: please see section re Paper 8.7
8.3.9. Action 7.5.C.Complete. However concerns were raised that the model does not cover hauling over the stern. Tony Tait said he would send a DVD of the computerised model scenarios to all the Members for their comments.
Action 8.3.2: Tony Tait (Seafish) to send out the DVD of the Stability Awareness Course computerised model scenarios to all the Members of the Group for their information and comment. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
Action 8.3.3: Group Members to respond to Tony Tait (Seafish) regarding the DVD of the Stability Awareness Course computerised model scenarios with their comments on its contents and other problem areas that could possibly be covered. Action to be completed by 16th March 2007.
8.3.10. Action 7.6.1.A: please see section re Paper 8.6.1.
8.3.11. Action 7.6.1.B: please see section re Paper 8.6.1.
8.3.12. Action 7.6.1.C: Complete.
8.3.13. Action 7.7: Complete.
8.3.14. Action 7.8.1: Complete. Ian Forder advised the Group that he subsequently contacted the Icelandic Maritime Authority direct from whom he has received two interim responses. Ian will keep the Group updated accordingly.
8.3.15. Action 7.8.2.: Complete. However the Chairman explained that circumstances had changed over the last three months and that a Group E Mail Exchange system was being “trialled”. If we and the MCA IT Branch are happy that it works satisfactorily then consideration will be given to going public with it.
8.3.16. Action 7.8.3.: Complete.
8.4. Marine Accident Investigation Branch – Recommendations affecting the Stability Sub Group
8.4.1. The Chairman spoke briefly to the Paper. The current position on progress for each vessel; “Charisma”, “Amber” and “Kirsteen Anne” was essentially self explanatory and was linked into the Stability Notice and Freeboard Guidance Mark validation. Neither Roger Carlisle nor Bill West had anything further to add.
8.5. Seafish – Stability Awareness Training Courses
Paper 8.5.1 - Update
8.5.1. Tony Tait spoke briefly to the Paper. He told the Group that eleven (93 attendees) half day “Basic Stability” courses and 53 (514 attendees) one day “Intermediate” courses have been delivered to date. The attendance has not been as high as hoped, being slow to pick up in certain areas, but numbers were improving.
8.5.2. Fishermen were very pleased with the courses, commenting that as a result they are certainly more aware of the stability issues raised.
8.5.3. Jim Evans said that as they were purely voluntary courses the numbers of fishermen that had already attended are a great credit to Seafish.
8.5.4. As mentioned earlier in the meeting the issue of cost of courses, if funding is not available, came up. Tony Tait said he would investigate the costs.
Action 8.5: Tony Tait (Seafish) to investigate the costs to fishermen of the Stability Awareness Training Courses if no other funding is available. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.5.5. The Chairman added that the Sub Group should support other Agencies as necessary in any requests made for continued funding for the courses.
8.5.6. He added that course materials were bought by the FAO (Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations) to train trainers and deliver the course in Sri Lanka. Information was requested and sent to the U.S. Coastguard and much interest has been shown by fisheries departments in Denmark, Norway, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada.
8.5.7. A brief discussion ensued about whether an individual fisherman’s Stability Awareness Training Course Certificate, if gained outside the UK but using Seafish’s materials and training methods etc, would be accepted, as an equivalent, by the MCA. This would be relevant if the requirement to have a Certificate becomes mandatory.
8.5.8. The Chairman expressed the view that, logically, if the non UK Course was taught by what the MCA viewed as competent trainers using the same methods and materials then he imagined it would probably be acceptable.
ACTION 8.6.2: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to liaise with the MCA Certification and Training Branch about their initial thoughts on the recognition, as equivalent, of Stability Awareness Courses Certificates from other Administrations. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
Paper 8.5.2. – Mandatory Attendance on Stability Awareness Training Courses 8.5.9. This Item was one that was directed to the Fishing Industry Safety Group (FISG) who discussed it at the November 2006 Meeting and subsequently referred it back to the Stability Sub Group for resolution.
8.5.10. The Chairman noted in his address that Jim Hudson had, at an earlier meeting, raised an objection to all persons on board certain vessels having to take the Stability Awareness Training Course e.g. process workers on “factory” fishing vessels.
8.5.11. The discussion covered :-
8.5.12. Expanding on bullet point two, an example was of process workers on a “factory” fishing vessel. (There are about 40 or so vessels on the UK Register that would come under that category). There were mixed views about whether it was relevant to them to have to attend a course.
8.5.13. In respect of bullet point three, the consensus of the Group was that the courses should become mandatory.
8.5.14. One argument put forward was that these process workers were not fishermen as such and were not involved with any other activity on the vessel so they did not need to be “stability aware”. One thing to consider if they were to be made a special case then there would have to be a definition of someone working on a vessel but not as a fisherman as such. This may create problems.
8.5.15. The Chairman introduced the Health and Safety element into the discussion i.e. that every person on board a vessel, of any sort, has a responsibility to himself and others for his and their health and safety. It is important to bear this in mind.
8.5.16. There was a strong view that it should be mandatory for all new entrant fishermen as soon as possible and in the case of existing fishermen, if funding was available to advise them to do the course while they can still do it for free but put a deadline in for the changeover to mandatory when the charging regime would come into play.
8.5.17. In summarising the discussion the Chairman put forward the position that the Group were for the Stability Awareness Training Course being made mandatory for all fishermen in service at the time of it being mandatory. New entrant process workers on “factory” fishing vessels would be expected to take the Course as part of their initial training.
8.5.18. The drafting and amending of appropriate Legislation will take time but during that time if funding continues to be available for the next year or so then fishermen should be coaxed to get the Certificate while they still can for free.
Post Meeting Note: Subject to the agreement of the Group the Chairman will advise the Fishing Training Advisory Group (FTAG) of the views of the Stability Group.
8.6. RESEARCH PROJECTS
8.6.1. Validation (Stability Notice/Freeboard Guidance Mark) Update
8.6.1.1. The Chairman introduced the Paper and the discussion covered:-
8.6.1.2. The Chairman summarised this part of the meeting saying that it had been very productive and raised a lot of issues not raised in previous discussions. The many points for consideration could not be resolved in this meeting and he asked that all Members take the points away and see what they can come up with. Amongst other things in terms of: winning the “hearts and minds” of fishing vessel owners/skippers to be willing to be involved in the validation and the need for some financial input so there is no cost to those that take part.
Action 8.6.1.A: Members to revisit all the issues raised in the meeting with respect to the validation of the Stability Notice and/or Freeboard Guidance Mark exercise and write back to the Secretariat (Ian Forder – MCA) with comments, suggestions etc Action to be completed by 16th March 2007. 8.6.1.3. The Chairman added that he would also go back to the MCA Principal Fishing Vessel Surveyors for their update and their views on the topics raised above. ACTION 8.6.2: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to liaise with the MCA Principal Fishing Vessel Surveyors for their update and their input on the with respect to the validation of the Stability Notice and/or Freeboard Guidance Mark exercise Action to be completed by 16th February 2007. 8.6.2. Suitability of Stability Criteria (RP 557) 8.6.2.1. This was an information Paper which the Group noted. However attention was drawn to Paragraph 4.4. There was some surprise raised over the use of the range of positive stability by setting a minimum of say 80 degrees. The Chairman said that he would go back to the Author of the MIN and raise this issue. ACTION 8.6.2: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to go back to the author and raise the issue regarding Paragraph 4.4 over the use of the range of positive stability by setting a minimum of say 80 degrees. Action to be completed by the date of issue of the final Minutes of Stability 8. 8.7. Five Year Strategy Document 8.7.1. The Chairman said that the Five Year Strategy Document will be updated in light of comments/topics arising from the meeting. ACTION 8.7: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to update the Five Year Strategy Document as appropriate in light of comments/topics arising from the meeting.Action to be completed by 16th February 2007. 8.8. ANY OTHER BUSINESS
8.8.1. OAN 455.
8.8.1.1. The Chairman asked the Group for comments in response to Alan Shute’s comments regarding OAN 455 (relates to an Action resulting from the last Stability meeting). Fraser Heasley agreed with the majority of the comments put forward by Alan including the latter’s proposal of a Research Project.
ACTION 8.8.1: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to consider, and report back to the Group the result of the consideration the requirement for a Research Project to take a look at water freeing and the maintenance of the watertight envelope. This Project would form the basis of a Revision to OAN 455.Action to be completed by the date of issue of the final Minutes of Stability 8.
8.8.2. STABILITY OF MUSSEL DREDGERS
8.8.2.1. Fraser Heasley advised the Group that Mussel Dredgers are a novel, non standard fishing vessel designed for use in shallow water hence a shallow draught and wide beam. They have large open holds. Due to their design they have difficulty in meeting the standard stability criteria and freeboard requirements. Up until now there have been limited numbers of these vessels therefore they have been treated on a case by case basis where alternative equivalent stability criteria and favourable weather restrictions have been applied.
8.8.2.2. However, the numbers of these vessels is rising rapidly; they are becoming a “fleet” mainly operating from Northern Ireland or Western England. Due to the increasing numbers, it is important that this type of vessel is addressed and official guidance produced. The guidance should cover the intact stability and freeboard issues and should also address the loading of these vessels. Consideration should be given to the different modes of operation i.e. seed laying and harvesting and likelihood of shipping green seas into the open holds. Recent MAIB investigation into the capsize of the Orion indicated that that in the harvest mode boulders and stone where brought aboard and loaded into the holds along with the mussels which may have contributed to the stability problems.
8.8.2.3. The Group’s comments were sought. Barry Deacon suggested that this would be a good place for the use of Stability Notices, they could be part of the Stability Booklet and a copy of the Notice could be sited in the wheelhouse. Fraser Heasley suggested that he would like to see loading conditions in the stability booklet with the holds completely filled to 100% to ensure that overloading could not occur and that the vessels could sustain shipping green seas into the holds.
8.8.2.4. It was also suggested that criteria laid down by the Dutch authorities for their Mussel Dredgers and our criteria for Sand Dredgers be researched and appropriate parts considered for use.
Action 8.8.2A: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to write to the Dutch Maritime Authorities regarding the criteria that they lay down for their Mussel Dredgers. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.8.2.5. Fraser Heasley also questioned the vessels arrangement; was it essentially a Beam Trawler and as such would need additional stability.
Action 8.8.2B: Members to write in to the Secretariat (Ian Forder - MCA) with any further thoughts, suggestions, and proposals on how to tackle the overall Mussel Dredger Stability Criteria - Safety issue. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.8.2.6. Fraser Heasley asked if Seafish had details regarding Mussel density as knowledge of this would assist. Tony Tait advised that Seafish have and he would forward them.
Action 8.8.2C: Tony Tait (Seafish) to forward Mussel density information to Fraser Heasley . Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.8.3.Seamanship Issues
8.8.3.1. This related to concerns raised at the last meeting, and subsequently a letter being sent to George MacRae (the Chairman of the Fishing Training Advisory Group - FTAG), about how issues of seamanship are covered within training. As yet a final reply on this matter from George MacRae has not been received. 8.8.3.2. Jim Evans, who attended the last FTAG meeting, said that the likely response will be that such things are covered within the syllabus of courses. Jim still feels that this is perhaps not quite the case. 8.8.3.3. Bill West expressed the opinion that, in general in his experience, i.e. being on the training side in his previous job, that trainers do try to cover such scenarios with respect to basic seamanship but things are not as straightforward as there is the “educating the person” or “teaching them to pass the exam” dilemma.
Action 8.8.3A: The Secretariat (Ian Forder – MCA) to follow up with George MacRae for his reply re Action 7.4. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
Action 8.8.3B: The Secretariat (Ian Forder – MCA) to copy George MacRae’s reply to all Members for their comments in light of discussion at the Stability Meeting. Action to be completed by TBC.
8.8.4. Small Fishing Vessel Code
8.8.4.1. Tony Tait requested, and fellow members supported his request, that the Group makes representations to the appropriate person(s) regarding the speeding up of action in getting the Small Fishing Vessel Code finalised as it will play a key role in enabling vessel stability issues to be addressed.
Action 8.8.4: The Chairman (David Ralph – MCA) to makes representations to the appropriate person(s) regarding the speeding up of action in getting the Small Fishing Vessel Code finalised as it will play a key role in enabling vessel stability issues to be addressed. Action to be completed by 16th February 2007.
8.9. Date of next meeting
8.9.1. Wednesday 16th January 2008. (The Group agreed that a meeting may be held, if required, before this date – although not in August). |