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OPERATIONS SUB-GROUP MEETING
Attendees
Mike Watts Apologies
Susan Rooke 1. Minutes/Action Points from last meeting
1.1 Tony Woodward raised the issue of allegations regarding alleged comments from a member of HQ staff regarding outport surveyors and wished it to be noted that he robustly refuted these allegations. It was also agreed that clothing issues were not part of this meeting and should be pursued by the PFVS as a separate issue.
2. Terms of Reference and MOU to FISG
2.1 Roger Spence was asked to clarify the requirements for the meeting and it what way it would differ to Operations meeting between HQ and Principals. He explained that it was not intended to be a formalised replacement for the existing liaison meetings or informal internal meetings. It was to be the final link with FISG to give Operations a voice, to show what was being done, take forward strategic issues and feed into the 5-Year Strategy. This would also help to justify funding in future budget bids for issues that had been brought to the Group’s attention and discussed and agreed by the Group. The group should be able to take forward positive actions and initiatives e.g. Operators meetings held in the South West. Industry nationally also need to sign into this to discuss operational strategy and seek guidance from FISG on any problem areas.
2.2 A discussion was held on the composition of the group and it was agreed we would agree the Terms of Reference in this meeting. We would also discuss the other agenda topics whilst appreciating that future meetings will focus on the development of preventative strategy and how the Inspection and Survey regimes develop from that. It was pointed out that nothing is usually presented to FISG that has not previously been discussed in a Sub-Group meeting. The detail is considered in the Sub-Groups and then presented to FISG for agreement. The group will be able to make policy decisions to put forward to FISG but these will only be implemented subject to FISG agreement and inclusion in the 5-Year Strategy document.
2.4 It was further agreed that the meeting could be held wherever was convenient for the agreed attendees to reach, depending on other attendees suggested to cover particular topics/problems. The frequency of the meetings should be kept flexible to respond to any items requiring discussion in this arena. There should be at least one meeting a year. The group will decide with the Chair and Secretariat the location of the following meeting.
2.5 A brief discussion was held regarding expenses for Industry representatives at FISG and FISG Sub-Groups. It was appreciated that a lack of assistance of this kind could affect those able to attend. Action: Caroline to check payment of expenses for Industry.
2.6 Other partners for the group were suggested and agreed. The Chair and Secretariat were agreed. Cedric Loughran, MS1 Dual Role Surveyor from MCA Liverpool, will be the Chair and Caroline Raeburn, Small Vessel Liaison Officer from Inspection Branch, will provide the Secretariat. The group should acquaint themselves with the Memorandum of Understanding and how the Sub-Group should report to FISG. As per the recommendation in Operations Paper 1.5 the Agendas of other Sub-Groups will be reviewed to ensure that any issues relevant to the Operations Group are transferred and vice versa. It was also agreed that Caroline would act as the Single Point of Contact for issues through the Operations Group.
2.7 The liaison meetings with owners groups were discussed and it was agreed that these would not and should not be formalised, but that issues raised within these meetings should be brought to the attention of the Operations Group. The Group should also, through FISG, promote these meetings in other regions.
3. Advice to Owners
3.1 A discussion was held regarding CEC’s, particularly with regard to the Anglo-Spanish vessels and the issues surrounding use of a British Skipper/Mate. The group also sought clarification from Survey Branch regarding the enforcement or otherwise of annual Radio Surveys. Action: Paul Coley to advise PFVS on Radio Surveys.
3.2 The group reverted to an earlier discussion point to propose and agree a date for the next meeting. It was decided this would be a month before FISG, at the end of October. Suggested date is Tuesday 28 October 2003. Action: Caroline to check Spring Place Conference Room availability. Action: Caroline to check for possible conflict with other meetings. Action: Caroline to send calling note to other partners for Group.
4. Over 24m Code
4.1 Concerns were discussed regarding Guidance to Surveyors and the issues concerning the clarity of Torremolinos for new builds. The FVS felt that the 1975 Rules were explicit and the Torremolinos Regulations were not. The PFVS felt there would be a benefit in having a meeting with Paul Williams to discuss these issues. Action: PFVS to arrange liaison meeting with Paul Williams.
4.2 Concerns were also raised regarding the recording of decisions, as issues are resolved through ongoing work. It was pointed out that there is a “Decisions Database” on the MNet and the FVS were advised to use this facility so that all surveyors can benefit.
5. Beamer Roll Tests
5.1 A cumulative error had been found in the electronic beamer roll test. Each test can be changed but the program cannot be changed to lock the correction in. One line of number is missing and it introduces a very slight error. Action: Roger Spence will take this to Fishing Safety Branch to be resolved.
6. Stainless Steel Pipework
6.1 A Safety Information Sheet issued from Fishing Safety Branch regarding Stainless Steel Pipework was shown to the group to discuss an error. It had been noted from Lloyds that we should not be advocating the use of ferritic stainless steels. Advice that had been received via an e-mail from Lloyds was discussed and it was agreed this should be promulgated and the Information Sheet revised. Action: Mike Collier to pass relevant information to Ron Drysdale and Fishing Safety Branch to amend Safety Information Sheet. Action: Survey Branch (Chris Balls) to promulgate advice to Marine Offices for all other vessels.
7. Local Owners’ Meetings
7.1 It was acknowledged by the group that these meetings were very successful and run in an open and transparent manner for all comments to be heard. They are very much the owners’ fora for talking direct to the MCA surveyors. Minutes of these meetings are taken and the promulgation of these minutes was discussed. It was agreed they needed to be given as wide a circulation as possible and issues raised within them tackled by the relevant bodies such as the Sub-Groups of FISG. Action: PFVS to promote owners’ meetings in other areas/regions. Action: Owners’ meetings to be included within the Strategy document. Action: Issues from these meetings e.g. U15M FV issues to be presented in a paper to the Operations Group.
8. Standard of Class Surveys/Appointment of Class Surveyors/Vessels Coming Out of Class
8.1 Issues were discussed concerning the standard of Class surveys, particularly those done overseas. The appointment of Class surveyors to do parts of the Survey on our behalf was considered and it was noted that the Technical Advisory Group was discussing this with Paul Coley and Chris Balls. The concerns regarding older vessels coming out of Class were also highlighted. It was agreed that HQ and PFVS should discuss these items further.
9. 15-24M Code of Practice – Guardship Certificates
9.1 The group considered the matter of those Fishing Vessels of 12M RL to 15M LOA that no longer have a UKFVC but still have a Guardship certificate (LLE) based on that certification. It was agreed by the group that the LLE should remain valid to the expiry of the certificate provided that the vessel kept radio and other equipment to the FV2 standards and was subject to annual inspection as before. After these certificates expire these vessels and all newbuilds should be compliant with the Workboat Code of Practice. Action: Bill Wood to prepare a paper for Fishing Safety Branch (and copied to Roger Spence) outlining this proposal.
10. Recommendations of Solway Harvester Report
10.1 A full response to the MAIB recommendations has already been sent to MAIB and many of the issues raised have already been taken into account with the introduction of the 15-24M Code of practice. Areas of concern outstanding should be raised with the appropriate Sub-Groups. Action: Bill Wood to produce papers for the appropriate Sub-Groups.
11. Recording System for FV Helpline
11.1 The system is not yet functional, as there have been problems with installation and running the program. Fishing Safety Branch will liaise with Sam Metters to provide training and assistance. Action: Fishing Safety Branch to liaise with Sam Metters to install system.
12. Uniform – Polo Shirts and Trousers
12.1 It was agreed this item would not be discussed at this meeting and carried forward separately.
13. LOLER & PUWER Regulations
13.1 The PFVS felt that these regulations coming into effect were lengthy and complex and it would be a great assistance for the Fishermen to meet them if the main items could be condensed into a safety leaflet. It would also be very useful to know where all the testing stations are located around the UK. Action: Fishing Safety Branch to consider with Mike Lines through the Promotions Sub-Group.
14. Watchkeeping Certificates
14.1 The group supported the recommendation from Allan Marsh (the SCOTNI Enforcement Officer), following an incident with a Fishing Vessel, that all those watchkeeping on fishing vessels should be trained and certificated. A paper from Roger Towner on this issued was circulated to the group. Action: To be raised with the Training Advisory Group via Roger Towner.
15. Loss of Category of FV Surveyors
15.1 The potential change to the category of FV Surveyors had been mentioned with other notes at the end of the DQS Review paper. The group asked Roger Spence to explain the rationale behind the proposal. It should help to recognise the wide range of knowledge and skills of the MS2 surveyors and broaden their horizons, job scope and future promotion. With the introduction of the MS3 grade and the training to be given to allow progressions through the surveyor grades it should give a greater flexibility to the surveyors and to the Agency.
15.2 Whilst agreeing with the principle the FVS pointed out that a lot of hard work had been done to foster good relations with fishermen and the industry as a whole and the approach to working with fishermen was necessarily different to that of working with the Merchant fleet. It was feared that unless other surveyors were fully cognisant of this some of that work could be undone. It was agreed by the group that the use of Dual Role Surveyors meant that the knowledge, experience and competency learnt as a Fishing Vessel Surveyor was not lost to the Agency and many skills could be successfully carried across improving relations with industry and the Agency’s profile still further.
16. Vigo Seminar
16.1 The Seminar in Vigo will take place on 20 – 21 September 2003. Mike Sanderson will attend for MCA and has already discussed and agreed presentation topics with the organisers.
17. AOB
17.1 Halon on Fishing Vessels Halon systems are to be replaced by 31 December 2003 on all fishing vessels of all sizes. This information needs to be promulgated to all staff doing surveys and/or inspections on fishing vessels. It was suggested that Fishing Safety Branch produce a leaflet or handout to highlight this issue and remind owners/operators also giving a list of approved alternatives. Action: Fishing Safety Branch to consider issue of an advisory leaflet.
17.2 FISHING 2004 With the departure of Tony Woodward Fishing Safety Branch will be organising the MCA stand/attendance at next year’s show. The contact for this will be Neil Peacey.
18/19. Inspections of U15M FV’s/Small FV Code Review
18.1 A discussion was held concerning the inspection of those vessels in the 12-15M range. There are not a large number of existing vessels in this category but many more new vessels are being built to fall just under 15M. There were no great concerns expressed by the Sector Managers for inspections and were happy with the checklists for the 12-15M range. The only concern is that the owners may not be fully aware that the decal is issued only for compliance with the Code checklists and the vessel may still be detained by a surveyor as “dangerously unsafe”. It could also be detained for not meeting Code requirements. This advice should be included in the next Newsletter.
18.2 The group considered the issues surrounding linkage to Registry or Licence. There are more and more fishermen/owners of U15M vessels asking Sector Managers and other MCA staff why we don’t link the inspection regime to Registry. The linkage to licences will be taken for discussion again in 2005. More information has been passed out to the FVS and SM’s to help the inspection regime. It was appreciated that the Fishing Associations have agreed to help MCA track down the “missing” vessels and we need to give them the time to see if this works. If there are still problems then suggestions for changes to the regime can be made through the Small FV Code Review Group.
18.3 It was agreed by the group that Sector Managers should be able to attend a measurement course at the Training Centre. This course is currently being re-written and re-designed by Mike North and Ken Gordon. It is part of the move of the FV Inspection training from the regions to the Training Centre. It has already been acknowledged through the SM Workload Review Group that the Sector Managers would appreciate refresher training for this once the new course has been designed and agreed. Mark Stagg has been part of this process and accepts the need. Action: Caroline to include the Measurement course/FV Inspection courses at Training Centre in the FVS Seminar agenda.
18.4 It was thought by PFVS that the use of dinghies in lieu of liferafts should be included in the checklists and this should be brought forward through the Small FV code Review. Lights should also be appropriate to the size of the vessel and this should be made clear.
20. Activation of DSC Alarms
20.1 The FVS raised this issue as a point of concern as some skippers are choosing to turn off the alarms due to the activation by RN Warships. This will need to be raised with the Radio Sub-Group and the Royal Navy. Fishermen should be advised not to turn these alarms off and told that the problem is being investigated. Action: PFVS to raise a paper for the Radio Sub-Group and have already contacted the Royal Navy.
21. Newsletter
21.1 It was agreed that the Newsletter is a good forum for promulgating information and it would be advantageous to broaden the distribution of the letter to include all MCA staff with an interest in fishing issues. Progress reports from each of the FISG Sub-Groups could be included in the Newsletter as well as other useful information. Given the increased work this would require Fishing Safety Branch agreed to take on the production and distribution of the Newsletter. It was pointed out the by Sector Managers that if it was to be sent electronically then there should be a “photo free” version. This is because the inclusion of photos makes it very difficult for them to access, download and print from remote terminals. Action: Fishing Safety Branch to take on the production and distribution of a Newsletter for all staff involved with Fishing.
ACTIONS
Terms of Reference
Action: Caroline to check payment of expenses for Industry.
Advice to Owners
Action: Paul Coley to advise PFVS on Radio Surveys.
Date of Next Operations Group meeting
Action: Caroline to check Spring Place Conference Room availability. Action: Caroline to check for possible conflict with other meetings. Action: Caroline to send calling note to other partners for Group.
Over 24m Code
Action: PFVS to arrange liaison meeting with Paul Williams.
Beamer Roll Tests
Action: Roger Spence will take this to Fishing Safety Branch to be resolved.
Stainless Steel Pipework
Action: Mike Collier to pass relevant information to Ron Drysdale and Fishing Safety Branch to amend Safety Information Sheet. Action: Survey Branch (Chris Balls) to promulgate advice to Marine Offices for all other vessels.
Local Owners’ Meetings
Action: PFVS to promote owners’ meetings in other areas/regions. Action: Owners’ meetings to be included within the Strategy document. Action: Issues from these meetings e.g. U15M FV issues to be presented in a paper to the Operations Group.
15-24M Code of Practice – Guardship Certificates
Action: Bill Wood to prepare a paper for Fishing Safety Branch (and copied to Roger Spence) outlining this proposal.
Recommendations of Solway Harvester Report
Action: Bill Wood to produce papers for the appropriate Sub-Groups.
Recording System for FV Helpline
Action: Fishing Safety Branch to liaise with Sam Metters to install system.
LOLER & PUWER Regulations
Action: Fishing Safety Branch to consider with Mike Lines through the Promotions Sub-Group.
Watchkeeping Certificates
Action: To be raised with the Training Advisory Group via Roger Towner.
Halon on Fishing Vessels
Action: Fishing Safety Branch to consider issue of an advisory leaflet.
17.2 FISHING 2004 With the departure of Tony Woodward Fishing Safety Branch will be organising the MCA stand/attendance at next year’s show. The contact for this will be Neil Peacey.
18/19. Inspections of U15M FV’s/Small FV Code Review
Action: Caroline to include the Measurement course/FV Inspection courses at Training Centre in the FVS Seminar agenda.
Activation of DSC Alarms
Action: PFVS to raise a paper for the Radio Sub-Group and have already contacted the Royal Navy.
22. Newsletter
Action: Fishing Safety Branch to take on the production and distribution of a Newsletter for all staff involved with Fishing.
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